Transcript 0:00 [percussion music] Yo. Welcome to the Latino Newsletter Podcast, a show about us all the time. I'm your host, Julio Ricardo Varela, and today we have a very special episode. 0:11 It's actually a collaboration with a couple of other organizations in honor of Second Chance Month. 0:18 Second Chance Month, otherwise known as April, is a nationwide effort to raise awareness about the barriers faced by people with criminal records. 0:29 The point is to highlight the importance of providing them opportunities for successful reintegration into society. 0:36 So I mentioned that this is a collaboration, and our guest hosts this week are both reporters for an outlet that I'm a big fan of, they're doing great work out of Los Angeles, Caló News. 0:50 They're a news organization that centers our community, our narrative, and our story. So before we do anything else, let me introduce Brenda Verano and Michelle Zacarias. 1:01 They are in the Caló News newsroom in LA, and let me read their bios. Brenda Verano is a staff reporter for Caló News, covering local politics, social justice, and education. 1:15 She was born in Querétaro, Mexico, and raised in South Central. Brenda is also a 2023 USC Health Equity fellow and an LA Press Club 2024 grantee for reporting on systemic racism. 1:29 She recently won the 2024 Rubén Salazar National Award for a story about immigration, family, and unity beyond borders. Brenda, welcome to this very special edition of the Latino Newsletter Podcast. Thank you. 1:45 That's really nice. Thank you. So excited. But I'm gonna now share flowers of your colleague's bio. Michelle Zacarias is a queer Latina award-winning journalist, storyteller, and two-time cancer survivor. 1:59 Born and raised in Chicago, Michelle currently lives in Southern California, and as a Caló News reporter and UC Berkeley local news fellow, she covers politics, equity, and topics pertaining to state-sanctioned violence. 2:15 Michelle writes the very candid column, Sin Pena, and in that column she shares her journey navigating colorectal cancer and confronting healthcare inequities. 2:27 In 2018, she won the Sol Miller Excellence in Journalism Award and was a 2024 finalist for the LA Press Club's SoCal Journalism Award in Political Commentary. Wow. Okay. 2:39 Michelle Zacarias, welcome to the Latino Newsletter Podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 2:45 So I mentioned these two amazing Latina reporters who will be the guest hosts this week, and you all are talking with a fabulous guest this week. Mm-hmm. Esther Mendez. 2:58 She's a Latina who has a really unique and inspiring story. She was someone who was able to pivot her life and use her experience of being arrested to create some new opportunities for herself. 3:14 Brenda, can you explain what the LA County Justice Care and Opportunities Department, or JCOD, does? Yeah. So we're gonna hear a lot about JCOD today. 3:24 If you've just been released from prison and you call JCOD and say, "Hey, like, I literally have just been released," they will support you from that minute. 3:34 They'll pick you up and will take you to either emergency housing or connect you to, like, a care manager. Um, some people are gonna need direct housing there and then, right? Some people have housing. 3:45 Maybe their families, um, are taking them in or providing housing, so maybe they don't need that, but they do need, um, help to find a job. 3:53 They also do, like, drug treatment and mental health counseling, assessing folks and making sure that they can get back to their feet as, uh, quickly and as best suitable for them. 4:05 I think you all were the people that had to do this interview. You're amazing reporters. You've been covering this topic in California for years, and I'm so excited about this interview. 4:18 Michelle, would you mind introducing this week's guest? Yeah. 4:25 So, you know, Esther Mendez will obviously speak a lot about her experience and what she navigated in the criminal justice system throughout the podcast, but I think what makes her narrative so powerful is she's really a testament to second chances, right? 4:40 Mm-hmm. She is the model for what restorative justice can look like when the city allocates funding into alternatives to prison and incarceration. All right. 4:55 Thank you, Michelle and Brenda, and let's hear your interview with Esther Mendez. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. It's really a pleasure to have everyone here. Esther Leslie Mendez, I wanna introduce you. 5:08 Thank you for being here with us today. Welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. Of course. We're so happy. 5:17 So Esther, as we mentioned, you took a bit of a nontraditional path to being a lawyer. 5:23 I imagine you're now really comfortable in the courtroom, but can you take us back to 2016 and how you felt in the courtroom as a defendant that day? I wanna clarify a little bit. 5:35 The first part was about me feeling comfortable in the courtroom. I'm still getting used to it. 5:41 Um, I got sworn in as an attorney last month, and I've been in training, so it is my second week in the courtroom, and it does feel like a culture shock. I didn't, uh, grow up with any lawyers in the family. 5:54 Um, did not know any lawyers growing up, so, um, every day I'm just trying to get used to it just a little bit more. 6:01 But to your question about how I felt in 2016 when I was in court as a criminal defendant, that was my fourth time appearing to a courtroom.Uh, the first time I had to appear in a courtroom, I was, I would say, about thirteen years old. 6:20 Uh, I got into a middle school fight, and I had dealt with mental health, uh, trauma and mental health disorders that led to my behavior at a very young age. 6:34 So when I got to court, the judge basically did not want to do anything with the case. It was a very small fight, um, but still, I, I feel like people should try to avoid violence because it's harmful. 6:48 But that's where I was at at the time, and the judge let me go home. Nothing happened with that case. 6:54 But when I went back to school, the person that was in charge of what happened with that school fight decided to punish me in their own way. So they decided that I should not be part of my middle school graduation. 7:06 So I never walked stage for middle school. And when I got to high school, I was still dealing with mental health disorders that got even more intense. I started drinking a lot at a very young age. 7:18 I started missing my classes. I started using other controlled substances. That was my way of coping. I was not going to therapy. 7:29 I, uh, was basically ignored by a lot of my high school teachers because in some way, they didn't really know how to deal with me. 7:38 Um, and my family, uh, they migrated here from Mexico, so I was the first person in my family that was dealing with, uh, serious mental health issues, and they really did not know how to help me. They did their best. 7:53 So by the time it was time to graduate, I did not have enough high school credits, so I had to finish my high school education in adult school. But my mental health issues were still a big problem in my life. 8:06 And I would call it more of a challenge, not so much a problem anymore because it is a human experience that many of us go through. So when I was eighteen years old, there was a case that came up. 8:18 I was under the influence. Uh, it was a petty theft, and I represented myself in that case. I don't recommend anybody to represent themselves [chuckles] because it is a very risky move. 8:28 But at the time, I just didn't know how to trust the system, so I thought that I was better off representing myself. 8:34 Thankfully, I was able to get a diversion situation granted, so I did some community service hours, and then that case got dismissed. 8:42 So it doesn't really show up if I go apply for work, but now I'm talking about it in public. 8:46 So it's funny because now I'm talking about it because I know it's so important to give that voice to people because a lot of times we're criminalized over an act, but there's not enough emphasis on what led to that situation. 9:04 So for me, I was dealing with housing insecurities. I had mental health issues. I couldn't afford anything, so I decided to take some items from a store that did not belong to me. I did not pay for them. And so 9:17 I did that. The, uh, diversion, um, situation got my case dismissed, but then I still had that mental health, uh, situation going on. So I picked up another case when I was twenty years old. 9:31 And then in two thousand sixteen, I was twenty-four, and I picked up another case. And for that case, I drove through a checkpoint, and I was, um, you know, under the influence. 9:43 And when I went to the courtroom, I asked the judge for a chance, right? And this is Second Chance Month, so it was like a second chance. 9:52 Some people call it a fair chance because for many people, there was not a real first chance to begin with. So I like to put that out there as well. Uh, but for me, I had already tried recovery. 10:05 I had already tried mental health programs. Still dealt with a lot of trauma. I hadn't done trauma therapy yet. So there was a situation that came up, and I ended up relapsing. So I was drinking and driving. 10:19 And I know that, uh, DUIs are very stigmatized because a lot of people have lost their loved ones, uh, through drinking and driving, and I'm a very empathetic person, and I understand that that's dangerous. 10:31 So when I got into the courtroom, I told the judge, "Look, I tried this before." And I did not tell her at that time that I wasn't sure if I would succeed again, but I asked her for a chance. 10:45 I was afraid that I would fail. I wasn't quite sure because I had already tried so many programs before. And so I told her, "I signed up to a program that the court is not ordering me to go to. 10:56 I'm going to that program so I can rebuild my life and try this again." And I had signed up to a community college class, and the judge heard me, and she thought about it, and she gave me that chance, right? 11:11 What was going on is that I was asking her to let me go to those programs while I was on house arrest because I was facing county jail time. 11:20 And in my previous case, I had gone to county jail, and my experience in county jail was very difficult. 11:26 There are people who have been hardened by their circumstances in the system, and a lot of times, uh, there would be situations where people are very confrontational, and, uh, they communicate the way they know how to communicate, and it was very tough for me. 11:44 I didn't want to go back. It was very difficult. I got offered drugs when I was in there. And like I said, I was trying to get my life back in order through recovery and my mental health program. 11:56 County jail was gonna be a triggering place for me. Mm-hmm. 11:59 So because the judge was able to grant me that, I successfully completed that treatment program, that rehab program, and I walked stage for the first time in my life since elementary school. 12:11 And my parents saw me walk stage, and they were crying. They were in tears. 12:16 And I remember when I was walking that rehab program stage, and I turned around to look at my parentsI was surprised to see them tear up, but I also realized like, "Wow, they haven't seen me complete anything since elementary school, anything like a program or a school." 12:34 And so that really encouraged me to go back to school. I talked to my counselor in that program. She's the person who was like, "Yeah, go to school. Like, that's a good idea. 12:43 You need something to work on while you work on your mental health, something to keep you busy." And after that, I ended up, uh, transferring from Santa Monica Community College to UC Irvine, 12:55 and then I got my bachelor's in psychology because I really wanted to understand human behavior. I'm not the only person in my life that I know that has been in trouble with the law. 13:06 A lot of people in my community go through this. 13:09 A lot of Black and brown people end up incarcerated, and so I really wanted to understand what is going on in society and what is going on in a person's mind when they end up making decisions that could get them in trouble. 13:24 And so in my last year at UC Irvine, I met a formerly incarcerated student. 13:30 This was a formerly incarcerated law student, and that was the first time I had met somebody who had a criminal record who was going to law school. He told me that he had been in prison for six years in the past. 13:44 So that-- After hearing that, I stopped counting myself out, and I started thinking about the idea of going to law school. 13:54 And eventually I applied and passed the bar and then got sworn in by that same judge in my two thousand and sixteen case last month. 14:04 Esther, one of the things that you mentioned that was so powerful is that you said a big part of why you were motivated to kind of do your own advocacy was because you had this distrust in the system, and you later on kind of mention it again about how Black and brown people are disproportionately incarcerated, impacted by state-sanctioned violence. 14:25 When was that shift for you, and what was that like mentally to go from being in a place where you had so much distrust of the criminal justice system to deciding you kind of wanted to be able to change and help people from the inside? 14:40 There's many reasons, honestly. We have seen so many news stories about people getting shot and killed by LAPD and a lot of people trying to get justice from that. 14:53 Though some people may have had justice, many people have not. So that made me a little frustrated with what was going on in the legal system. 15:04 I didn't really understand it, so I thought that if I went to law school, that it would help me understand what is going on there. Um, and another thing is, uh, I am a person who is a first-generation Oaxacan American. 15:19 I know people that are very close to me that have dealt with notario fraud issues, and so I am aware of people pretending to be a lawyer, promising a lot to a person who wants to become a citizen in this country. 15:35 I have heard many complaints from people about the legal representation that they have received. Many times, um, people feel like they're not really understood or heard. Um, and so 15:47 I really wanted to add on to the, to the legal profession and be a person who really understands, um, a person who needs help. 15:55 So when I first went to law school, I wanted to be a civil rights attorney, and then, uh, I quickly realized that I'm a kind of person that really likes to talk to people every day and see how people are doing. 16:06 And so at the public defender's office, that's a lot of that, right? Like, you have to see your clients and talk to them. 16:12 And I had studied psychology, um, I studied substance use disorder counseling, and I have been in trouble with the law and understand what it's like to need access to resources to be able to have a better path in the future. 16:28 And I know that most lawyers that provide that legal representation have good intentions. Not every single one of them have the experience that I have. 16:37 So I'm able to see what the client needs because I have been in their shoes before. 16:44 Um, and so I wanted to be able to provide that time for them where somebody is looking at the bigger picture and seeing what is the best route for this client to get what they need so they don't keep coming back. 17:01 Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Thank you for talking to us about the different routes that I think people can, can take. 17:07 Um, I wanted to ask you, w-we know that JCOD wasn't around in two thousand and sixteen when you, uh, were in court maybe, but how do you view the importance of initiatives like JCOD, um, and alternatives to incarceration, um, for, for others maybe also navigating situations like the one that you did? 17:28 Yeah. So the importance of JCOD is that JCOD is able to help fund the programs that we need for people to have access to resources. So first, it's like we need funding, so JCOD is very focused on that. 17:41 And JCOD supports programs that are programs that address mental health issues and, uh, substance use disorder issues as well as housing. 17:52 So a lot of, um, the people that go through this-- through the criminal court, a lot of times they don't have stable housing, which makes it very difficult to make it to their court hearings. 18:03 And for substance use disorder, if we have programs that are funded, then we have somewhere to send people to, uh, which is very important. 18:13 And for the mental health program as well, like, we need, we need to have programs where there are professionals taking care of a person that needs professional help.Right? 18:25 These kind of, uh, support systems that do not exist in county jails, right? 18:31 People might say, "Oh, well, you know, there are AA meetings in county jail," or, "There are certain support groups that people can go to" Sure. But I've been in there. It... 18:40 You only get it maybe once a week, and you have to add your name to a list, and you might get wait-listed, so you might not go to that support group. And that's just a support group. 18:49 When we're talking about a program, they literally have a case manager. They have goals for the person. They focus on the person's, uh, rehabilitative journey. 19:01 Some people come in with different traumas compared to other people. 19:05 Some people come with different mental health diagnoses, so there is no one size fits all, and that's why we need professionals to address a person and make a case for each person in their mental health and, uh, substance use disorder needs, a case management. 19:21 You know, I think you kind of answered this question that I had, which was, you know, as someone who has been on both sides now, what's something that you wish people understood about incarceration, um, re-entry, and, and generally second chances? 19:38 Yeah. I wish that people understood that every- not everybody's gonna get it right the first time, right? And that's really what this month is about, second chances. 19:46 And I also want people to understand that some people did not have a first chance, right? 19:52 Like, I am able to acknowledge my own privilege, um, and not saying that I am one of the most privileged people, because there wasn't that much privilege, uh, that I relied on to get here, right? 20:04 But I acknowledge my own privilege in the sense that I had both of my parents. Some people don't, 20:11 and they're in and out of, like, the foster care system, and that creates different situations that I did not have to experience. 20:18 But I did deal with mental health issues that landed me in places that people would not believe if I told them, right? And I was out there in the streets with nowhere to live. 20:30 That put me in survival human behavior conduct. I did things so I can survive, right? And those things led to more traumatic events. So I came into that 2016 case very traumatized. 20:48 And people show up with their own different walks of life. That does involve pain, right? We all go through pain. 20:57 And when there is compassion and accountability in the courtroom, there is an opportunity for somebody to be able to walk into a better path. We need those two, right? 21:12 When I walked in front of the judge, I told her, "Hey, I made a mistake," right? "This is what happened. This is what I need." 21:19 Though certain programs don't require you to admit that you made a mistake, you have to at least be agreeing that you will be accountable for the conditions that the court puts on your case. 21:31 So if the court wants you to get those mental health resources, you're agreeing to that. It's accountability. 21:36 When there's accountability and compassion in the courtroom, and not just a punishment goal where we just lock people away like they're gonna figure it out in incarceration, we already know that that doesn't work. 21:51 You know, I think the point that you bring up that's so important is that it's a collaborative thing, right? It's accountability and compassion. And you obviously have a very unique relationship with Judge Armstead. 22:03 Um, how has that evolved since you first met? Last year was the first time I saw the judge since 2016. 22:11 So when I was in law school, I was going through my court docket trying to find out who my judge was, and it said Judge Song-Hi Armstead. So I Googled her, and I was like, "Oh, my God, she's an amazing person." 22:24 [laughs] And I went to this Amity Foundation fundraiser because Mayor Karen Bass was hosted at my school, and I had shared my story with Mayor Karen Bass because I asked her, "Hey, there are people with, you know, all kinds of degrees out there that have had experiences of the people you're trying to help. 22:49 How do we get those people in the positions that you are?" Right? Because we need those people in leadership roles because they were able to get out of it, so they have answers. They know it inside and out, right? 23:05 They have the education and the life experience. 23:08 And so when I told her that I had been homeless and would ask for change in front of the liquor store in the district that she represented as a congresswoman, there was a person in the audience who was moved by that, and she invited me to the Amity Foundation fundraiser event. 23:26 And I saw a woman across from where I was sitting, maybe, like, eight tables away, and the person who invited me, I basically asked her, "Is that Judge Song-Hi Armstead?" And she was like, "Yes, that's her." 23:41 I was like, "Oh, my God." I was like, "You're not gonna believe this. She was the judge in my last conviction." She was like, "No way." I was like, "Yeah. Can I meet her?" And she was like, "Yeah," like, "Come on." 23:50 Uh, like, "I'll introduce you to her." And I mustered up the courage to rep- to, you know, represent myself to her. Like, "Hi, my name is Esther Mendez," blah, blah, blah. And she was just very welcoming. 24:01 She was very excited. She was happy to know that I'm doing well, but she was amazed to find out that I was in my last year of law school. And she gave me her contact information. She was like, "I wanna see you graduate." 24:16 And she did. She was at my graduation ceremony. And when it was time to study for the bar, she gave me some bar study tips. And, um, she swore me in. She showed up to swear me in last month. Okay. 24:29 Please raise your right hand. Whoo.I'm gonna try not to get emotional. [laughs] Um, I, state your name. I, Esther Mendez. As an officer of the court... Ooh. [laughs] As an officer of the court 24:45 I will strive to conduct myself at all times I will strive to conduct myself at all times... With dignity. With dignity. Courtesy. Courtesy. And integrity. And integrity. It is my honor to welcome you to the bar. 25:01 [cheering] She's just been a very supportive person, and I think what I really appreciate about her is that she understands that I'm able to bring a valuable experience to the table. 25:15 There are many times when decisions are being made about people like me, and there's no one in that room that understands it from first-hand experience, and she understands that there's a lot of value in that. 25:28 So I really appreciate having her in my life, because there have been times where I have been, you know, underestimated or talked down to and things like that. 25:40 But when I'm able to reflect on the people in my life that do see my value and my worth, I'm able to bounce right back up and do even better and try harder. Amazing. Thank you for sharing that full circle moment with us. 25:54 We really appreciate it. And again, we wanna congratulate you for all the work that you've been doing. Um, and we know that it's been about eight years since that turning point in 2016, right? 26:03 And we talked about the trauma that came with that and, like, the learning experiences. Um, what is the biggest difference between the person who you were then to the person you are right now sitting in front of us? 26:17 I, I would like to first say that I'm Esther, still Esther Mendez. I'm the same Esther Mendez that was sitting there in 2016. I have not changed who I am. I am still first generation Oaxacan American, right? 26:30 Still a person who goes to therapy, right? Like, let's talk about it. A lot of people don't like to say that, but we're all human beings, right? Like, I'm not a robot just because I became a lawyer or none of that. 26:42 I'm still Esther. The biggest difference really is that now I have access to resources that I did not have before, right? 26:50 And so I know how to take care of myself now, and I know how to be there for other people that are looking for the same kind of help. And now I have an education that I didn't use to have. 27:02 So I'm able to balance out what part was my part and what part was the system's part, right? It's, it wasn't all entirely my fault, right? In psychology, I learned that there are socioeconomic factors, right? 27:16 Societal factors. There's systemic racism that plays a role. Poverty, right? People in poverty are impacted. People with disabilities are impacted by the criminal legal system. 27:27 So I'm here with more knowledge about what is the part that I need to be accountable for and what is the part that I should advocate against, right? And represent people against and fight against, right? 27:40 So aside from that, I also now have a license to practice law. When I was sitting there eight years ago, I didn't have that. But mind you, when I was 18 years old, I still represented myself without a law degree. 27:55 Now, I can also represent other people, which is something that I didn't use to have. 28:00 And I walk around with more confidence knowing that I was able to make my past into an asset, and I'm able to now use it to advocate for other people and give voice to the unheard, and destigmatize what people think about people like me. 28:22 A lot of times people look at, "Oh, well, it's a felony," right? It was a felony, and it's a violent felony. But Esther just did, um, you know, like, a misdemeanor. 28:32 Some people like to compare, um, criminal charges to kind of say, "Oh, well, you know, the other person is worse than the other." 28:40 It is a known fact that every human being commits crime, but not everyone gets criminalized at the same rate. 28:53 So there are people out there that have committed a crime who have never been in trouble with the law or barely have gotten in trouble with the law because of the way they look, because of the money that they have, because of the privilege that they have. 29:08 I think that's, like, a perfect segue into my next question at least, because- Yeah... 29:12 you know, you talk so much about accountability, about reform, about what reformative justice can actually look like when people are given the proper tools and pathways to succeed. 29:26 As a lawyer, what is reformative justice gonna look like for you, and how do you intend to center that practice? I do wanna start off by first saying that there are wrongful convictions that happen. 29:38 And so not every person that goes into a criminal court needs to be held accountable, right? Because some people are in there for allegations or accusations that are not true. 29:51 So if we're talking about the people who actually were engaging in the conduct that they're being accused of, and they want or are in need of the services that we're talking about, I, I support that, right? 30:07 But when we're talking about a person who did not commit the crime, right? Like, they have the right to a jury trial. 30:15 So I don't wanna say that every person that goes into the courtroom must, um, be accountable, because that's not true. There are people in there who are being accused of crimes that they did not commit. 30:27 Um, but when we're talking about reformative justice, that one is kind of tricky becauseA lot of time there is like rhetoric about not being able to fix something that is created to be against marginalized people because that's what... 30:46 It's serving its purpose but if we're under the impression that we are able to reform something that was created systemically against marginalized people, I would say that reformative justice to me means that we need to focus on decriminalizing mental health, decriminalizing poverty, decriminalizing a substance use issue because those three things tend to be a significant amount of the cases. 31:18 And I would imagine a place where we get to decriminalize these very challenging issues for people by giving them the opportunity to rebuild their lives and give them access to these, to those resources. 31:38 But for me personally, I don't believe that like somebody suffering with a mental health issue should be a crime. And so some people that have talked to me have said like, "Oh, Esther, like you're kinda like... 31:51 You're a little too extreme sometimes" but, um, I don't believe that we should, we should be criminalizing people for being poor or suffering with mental health issues or any of that. 32:00 And giving them access to those resources is key. But right now it feels like we went backwards. 32:07 We have new laws, right, that were passed with Prop 36 where if people are committing crimes like a petty theft, for example, and they do it for multiple times, it could end up being a felony requiring them to serve prison time. 32:25 Majority of people that commit petty theft are poor. That's where we're at right now. And so for me, it really... I, I'm really the kind of person that thinks about the laws that are being passed. 32:37 But I know that JCOD focuses on the how to give people access to the resources because we can't change the law when somebody shows up to court. 32:46 So when somebody shows up to court, there's an opportunity to change the pattern of the person's life. If they keep coming back to criminal court, how do we get them to those resources that they need to stop coming back? 33:03 Thank you so much and thank you for speaking your truth. Regardless, we don't think that you're too extreme, so thank you for speaking your truth. And I have one really important question. Um- Yeah... 33:12 we talk a lot about second chances, and as a lawyer who has been through the justice system, is there any message to Angelenos out there currently struggling with the justice system of today? 33:25 Any inspirational message to the folks that maybe are navigating the justice system for the first time maybe? Okay. If it's their first time, I would say that life is not over. I know, kind of scary, right? 33:39 Especially if they have never been there before. 33:42 If this person is struggling with a mental health issue or substance use issue, I would try to see if there's a way that they can disclose this to their attorney, the person that's representing them, and see if there's a way that they can address those issues if that's the reason they landed in court, right? 34:06 If that's the reason why they're in court. Um, and most importantly, your pa- what you have done in the past does not define your future. 34:16 You have the power to take the actions required to go after what it is that you need. For me, when I was young, in criminal court as a defendant, I didn't believe in myself. 34:31 And I'm not saying that everybody that goes to court is going through the same experience as I experienced, but for me, I could, I could just give you like an honest story. 34:39 When I was 20 years old, I was in court and I was waiting for a lawyer to look at my case, and I remember she was very well put together. She was wearing a suit. Her hair was done nice. She seemed educated. 34:50 I mean, she's a lawyer. And I would look at her and I would think like, "Wow, she's one of those people." You know? Those people that are responsible, that got their life in order. I'm not like that. 35:01 I grew up being told that, um, I wasn't smart and I was underestimated a lot, and I would focus on the people that would put me down or say negative things about me. 35:12 But when I started to change my life around, I started to learn how to notice who are the people that see my worth and my value, who uplift me, and I started to invest in those relationships. 35:25 And I started to surround myself with people that believe in me and people that wanted for, wanted me to have a good life, to change my life around. And that's what I did. I found inspiring people. 35:38 I asked them a lot of questions on how they did it, and they gave me some suggestions and I followed those suggestions. 35:45 And when I come across more people that try to say something negative or something to throw me off, I just do my best to shrug it off and check in with a friend that is able to lift me back up when I feel down. And so 36:04 for me, it's all about community, making your own community, finding that support system, that foundation, and just not letting go of those people and being honest with yourself. 36:17 That's another one, being honest with how you're doing. How is Esther doing? How are you doing? How are you feeling? What do you need? 36:25 Because as much as I'm here right now as a lawyer, what's really important is knowing what I need. Yeah. And it's the same in the courtroom when you're trying to help another person. Find out what they need. 36:39 Everybody needs something. And just-You know, don't ignore your needs and do your best. Thank you so much for that. I feel like that's the perfect note to end on. 36:51 Your story is so powerful, and obviously Brenda and I are really honored that you would trust us with this. 36:57 And, um, I think we're just really always in awe of how folks in the community just kind of rise above the social circumstances presented to them. But I guess I kinda wanna leave you with a final note. 37:11 If there's anything you feel like you really wanna share or say that's important to your story and experience, we wanna hand you the mic. I forgot to state that my grandma, she only speaks Zapoteco. 37:25 So that's the indigenous language that existed there before our lands got colonized on the southern part of Mexico. And I remember when I was growing up, 37:37 I did get teased for being Oaxacan, and it was kind of difficult for me because I didn't understand why that was funny. And sometimes a- some of my elementary school friends... Right, because they're kids, right? 37:52 Now I'm older, and I understand that, you know, they're kids, but still, it was hurtful. And, um, some of them would watch my parents speak in Zapoteco. And my eyes are kind of small, so they would call me Chinese. 38:04 They're like, "Oh, we don't understand where... Like, your parents talk funny, and you have small eyes. Are you Chinese?" And I would tell them, like, "No. I am Latino, just like you." 38:15 They're like, "Oh, well, your parents talk weird. What is that?" Right? And I would try my best to explain it to them. And so when I met my husband, my husband is African American. We had a discussion about racism. 38:29 And I told him, "You know, in my Latinx community, I am indigenous, and I experience racism within my own community sometimes." 38:41 And I had to explain to him, uh, what, what it means when somebody calls you indita or indito. It's a derogatory slur against a person of indigenous descent. 38:54 And I told him about how I would navigate school wondering if my teachers were treating me different because I was short, brown, and indigenous. I would wonder that. 39:07 And when the whole situation happened, uh, with council, the... Well, not council, but this woman named Nury Martinez, right? And she was talking about African American people and Oaxacan people. 39:20 I told my husband, "Look. There it is." And shortly after that, my husband and I, we were on an Uber ride, and there was this guy who was talking about the Nury Martinez situation, right? 39:36 And he told me, "Well, they are ugly. Right? They look weird. I have a Oaxacan friend who we call him Phil because he looks weird, right?" And he kept talking about this person, this friend of his. 39:51 And I never disclosed to him that I was Oaxacan. I just let him keep going. And he said a bunch of other things. And at the end he was like, "So where are you from?" And I was like, "Oh, my parents are from Oaxaca. 40:02 But I was born here." And he was like, "Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. I did not mean no disrespect." He was like, "I'm ugly too. I'm ugly too." He was trying to justify it, right? 40:13 And at the end he kept saying, like, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry." I was like, "Forget it. Like, it's... I'm not gonna hold it against you. But just, you know, you never know who's Oaxacan." 40:23 And it was, it was hurtful a little, but, you know, I forgive you. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. As an indigenous person myself, like, trying to reclaim that is, um, that story is super powerful. So... Yeah. 40:37 I'm s- and I'm also sorry that you went through that. That's not okay for anybody to hear or for anybody to say. Um, but again, like Michelle was saying, we really appreciate your story. 40:46 And I think you didn't just touch on you being a lawyer and, like, the justice system. 40:50 You also talked about, like, humanity and coming back to ourselves, checking in with ourselves, um, having that respect that we show others for ourselves. 40:59 So I, I, I wanna say, yeah, just thank you for sharing that as well. Thank you. It's been quite a journey. 41:05 I feel like me being a Oaxacan American, you're saying you're, um, indigenous too, you understand, you understand what it's like to walk into a room and being the only indigenous person in the room. 41:15 It can be very challenging. I wanted to say this too, though. I'm, I'm a very proud indigenous woman. I'm gonna tell you that. Like, I'm, I am very proud because, 41:27 you know, like, we're the people that were able to survive colonialism, right? Mm-hmm. We still get to speak our language. We have our food. 41:38 We have the ruins in Oaxaca, México, and other indigenous places has their culture many time. And there's a lot of pride in that now because many people are trying to find out where they come from and all those things. 41:53 And I feel like in some ways I'm, I am blessed to know that I am, uh, una mujer indigena que sabe Zapoteco. Y mucho, hay mucho orgullo porque la gente necesita que saber que nosotras también podemos. 42:10 Y sí se pudo, y ahora soy una abogada. So si quieren ustedes hacer unos sueños en realidad, ustedes tienen todo lo que necesitan en su poder. Ustedes son unas mujeres bellas y inteligentes. 42:24 [laughs] Thank you so much for, for talking to us. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Wow. Esther Mendez just bringing it as our guest this week. What an awesome story. 42:37 And Michelle and Brenda, thank you so much for hosting the Latino Newsletter Podcast. Um, you all did a fantastic job. 42:45 Y- your perspective is so important to properly tellingThis story, this triumphant story of redemption. So I'm gonna start with Michelle first for the biggest takeaway, and then, and then I'll toss it to Brenda. 43:00 But can you both tell me what were your biggest takeaways from the interview? Like both... 43:05 Like Michelle, what was the part of the interview that just was, as a reporter, you were like, "Wow, I'm so glad I'm a journalist. I'm so glad Esther shared that"? So what really like stayed with you? Yeah. 43:19 You know, I think probably Brenda and I both feel, um, it was such a huge honor to be trusted with that story because it is one, um, that details a lot of vulnerability. Mm-hmm. 43:30 Um, and especially for a woman who, um, could have very easily been swept up in the prison pipeline system. Mm-hmm. Um, and fortunately, she had one person who really believed in her. 43:44 She had people who supported her in this journey, and I think- Yeah... the thing that she said that's really important is that this process wasn't linear for her. You know, she had a lot of relapses. 43:54 She had a lot of moments where she kind of ended up back in front of a judge. 43:58 Um, but she eventually got to where she needed to be, and it was because she had the support and the resources and the people who believed in her to be able to make that, um, decision for herself. 44:09 And I think it really speaks to the importance of investing in second chances, investing in alternatives to- Yeah... policing and prison, especially for, uh, vulnerable community members. Brenda, what about you? 44:25 Um, I think for me, the... We asked her a question and, and I think we asked her, like, "What's the difference between you back then and you now?" And she said, "I'm still the same person." 44:36 And I think for me, that touched on the humanity, um, that touched on, like, her own person, and she's like, "I'm still the same person, but I do have now, I have encountered resources," right? 44:47 And without those resources, we don't know, um, what that, like, what that path might have looked like. 44:53 Um, I think she also talked about how, like, the structural, economic, um, societal challenges that sometimes people, uh, go through that could lead them to prison. 45:02 It's not, it's not just like people are lazy or people... It's really structural things that people- Yeah... go through. Um, and I think she made a really important comment on that as well. Yeah. 45:14 And I, and I also wanna just point out- Go... that Esther is, is one of many Esthers, right? Mm-hmm. 45:19 One of many people that are experiencing violence through the criminal justice system and can do different things with their life if they're given the opportunity to do so. Mm-hmm. 45:30 I mean, Michelle Zacarias and Brenda Verano, thank you so much for hosting this week on the Latino Newsletter. You, y'all crushed it as, as I like- [laughs]... to say or as I like to tell my production team. 45:43 Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Thank you for having us. We're excited to continue working together. [upbeat music] Okay. That was special. 45:55 Just wanna thank Caló News, Brenda, Michelle, the entire team for giving us the chance to help them produce this episode. Major props to 46:10 my producer, Latino Newsletter Podcast producer, Joaquin Kotler, who took this from beginning to end. I literally played the host in this, in this, in this, uh, episode, and... Well, I also edited a little bit. 46:24 But Joaquin really, really ran with this and, and did a fabulous job. So if you like what you heard, rate and review us. We're on all the social medias from Blue Sky, which at Blue Sky we're the latinonewsletter.org now. 46:39 We're on Twitter, we're on Facebook, we're on TikTok, YouTube, all that good stuff. You know, if you wanna subscribe to our newsletter, the latinonewsletter\subscribe. We're also on LinkedIn. 46:52 Our newsletter on LinkedIn is growing. And yeah, and we are working very hard to continue to get additional episodes of the Latino Newsletter Podcast in your feed. So stay tuned for more news, right? 47:12 This episode of the Latino Newsletter was produced by Joaquin Kotler and edited by myself, Julio Ricardo Varela. And yeah, we'll be back when we're back, and just follow us, the Latino Newsletter Podcast. 47:27 Peace out, y'all. This podcast is a special collaboration between the Latino Newsletter and the Latino Media Collaborative's flagship news initiative, Caló News. 47:37 Funding was provided by the Los Angeles County Justice Care and Opportunities Department, JCOD. Established to reimagine and enhance support for justice-impacted individuals and their families across Los Angeles County. 47:52 To get more information, call 833-LAC-JCOD. That's 833-LAC-JCOD. 48:03 [upbeat music]
